Are these valid reasons for preventing men from joining a march against domestic violence against women…?
December 312009
"We have planned for the march to be women-only for a number of reasons:
Firstly, because it’s being held on International Women’s Day…
Secondly… There will be women and children on the march who have been assaulted and abused and who may be afraid of men…
Thirdly, women have been socially, culturally and economically conditioned to defer to men, to take our lead from men, to behave in ways approved of by men…
If you’re a man reading this, there are lots of ways in which you can show your support. You can stand on the pavements and cheer us on, you can babysit the kids… ask your football team to hold a two minute silence, you can make a financial donation"
http://millionwomenrise.com/millionwomenrise_womenonly.html
Edit
Obviously I am quoting from the website that is promoting the protest (see link)
Yes, there is plenty of very good evidence of widespread domestic violence by women against men, but feminists have gone to extremes to cover it up, including bomb threats http://www.law.fsu.edu/journals/lawreview/downloads/304/kelly.pdf
"One of the researchers to whom you often refer constantly adds the disclaimer: that women are still more likely to be seriously injured or killed by their abuser". I almost feel sorry for the feminists that their arguments are so feeble! What you say is not in the least a disclaimer, it is a simple fact that men are generally stronger than women, therefore are more likely to hurt a woman if they lash out. Nobody disputes this. Another ‘disclaimer’ by the same author is that injuries are equal when a weapon is involved.
Oh, and feminists? Some of us don’t think you need to have a mass rally in order to make a point or show that you are serious about an issue. Of course this sort of thing was very popular in Nuernberg at one point, and maybe if you all shout slogans together loud enough you will feel as if you are going to improve the world by highlighting just how evil men are. Have a nice day, ladies.
>>>There will be women and children on the march who have been assaulted and abused and who may be afraid of men…
If you’re a man reading this … You can stand on the pavements and cheer us on, <<<
Translation: men who are walking are scary to women who have been abused. But men who are standing still are not.
Sorry, ladies, but that is totally silly.
And the financial-donation idea REALLY cracks me up!
"We’re not going to let you march. We’re going to practice discrimination against you on the basis that you have a penis. But we will GLADLY take your money!"
It’s bad enough that these people are engaging in a symbolism-over-substance march that will do NOTHING to prevent domestic violence.
But it’s even worse when they essentially say to men, "We really want your sympathy for our cause — just as long as you’re not walking too close to us."
At least in 1960s Alabama, they didn’t ask black people to donate money to build "whites only" restrooms, and then keep the black people from actually using them.
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December 31st, 2009 at 9:01 am
This is a toughie.
On one hand, I can understand why men would have their noses out of joint, as an event such as this is pretty much calling all men abusers/assaulter and no-one likes that, I know I wouldn’t.
On the other hand, I can sympathise with the women who may be terrified.
All up, the idea of total segregation is not good for gender relations. The march can be divided into seperate sections, one for women who have the support of men with them and another section for women who can support each other.
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December 31st, 2009 at 9:37 am
>>>There will be women and children on the march who have been assaulted and abused and who may be afraid of men…
If you’re a man reading this … You can stand on the pavements and cheer us on, <<<
Translation: men who are walking are scary to women who have been abused. But men who are standing still are not.
Sorry, ladies, but that is totally silly.
And the financial-donation idea REALLY cracks me up!
"We’re not going to let you march. We’re going to practice discrimination against you on the basis that you have a penis. But we will GLADLY take your money!"
It’s bad enough that these people are engaging in a symbolism-over-substance march that will do NOTHING to prevent domestic violence.
But it’s even worse when they essentially say to men, "We really want your sympathy for our cause — just as long as you’re not walking too close to us."
At least in 1960s Alabama, they didn’t ask black people to donate money to build "whites only" restrooms, and then keep the black people from actually using them.
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December 31st, 2009 at 10:05 am
Your reasons are understandable but not really great.
1. Int’l Womens Day – eh for a reason
2. Women & children prev. assualted – well wouldn’t it be better
to allow them to see that not all men are bad – don’t promote
the fear, show them the other side.
3. I don’t really believe this to be as true as it once was – there are too many powerful and strong women, not just here in the u.s. but in many countries.
As for support from the sidelines yes that’s good but why would that be any different from marching – babysitting still doesn’t allow others to see that men will fight for womens rights. The moment of silence and the financial donations are good but that’s what every cause wants and if every cause was granted that we’d add another hour to every event
and money of course helps the cause but adds little to the real support. I know if I had previously had an issue and had remarried a supportive husband he’d want to be right by my side supporting me and my cause, because that’s how the
husband that I have is. But I really do understand you’re line of thought, I just think there’s also another side and view.
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December 31st, 2009 at 10:44 am
wow i think not….so because those women and children have been abused…and that is a sad fact..they cannot ever be around a man again…gonna make for a very sheltered life
i cannot believe an organization actually put that on their website..that is hilarious
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December 31st, 2009 at 11:11 am
No..the more support the better. I think men supporting and joining in the march simply makes the cause more whole and less "sided". Discriminating only promotes the hatred.
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December 31st, 2009 at 11:47 am
Honey there are a lot of men out there in a lot of pain as a direct result of domestic violence. There are dad’s who feel small and weak because they couldn’t protect their daughters, there are second husbands who have worked hard to get beyond their wives issues, there are sons who will feel inadequate for years because they couldn’t protect their mom and brothers who want kill someone for hurting their sister.
You are telling these good men that they can’t participate in your march but they can give you money. I understand that some of these women are frightened but, come on, they are going to have to learn to live in a world with men again someday. I think this would be a perfect opportunity for them so experience good men instead of mean ones.
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December 31st, 2009 at 11:55 am
peer pressure is one of the most effective tools in the arsenal of personal behavior modification……to exclude men..from marching against abuse….well…thats contrary to the cause……juvenile really
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December 31st, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Domestic violence is also perpetrated on men and children by women. In fact most physical violence in the home is perpetrated by women on children. For this reason I will be ignoring these deluded female bigots on their hate march and I’ve emailed them and left a comment on their blog to explain why.
Edit:
In relation to Pandora’s comment below…
"…co-op the movement and stick their beaks into issues which they neither understand nor feel any compassion."
I think this comment illustrates the disgraceful attitude that some feminists have towards men in general. The hurtful lie that a man can’t feel compassion or have understanding of domestic violence against women. Plenty of men have worked hard to help advance women’s rights. Ignorance or denial of this is why feminism is lampooned. My first thought on looking at that site was that it must be a spoof. I’m shocked that we haven’t put all this bigotry behind us yet.
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December 31st, 2009 at 1:11 pm
None of these are adequate reasons, but considering the fact that the entire DV issue has been gender politicized to the extreme conclusion that only men are capable of DV, I’m glad men are being forbidden to march.
I do not care to see men marching in support of this disastrously sexist movement and unless this march ends at the bottom of a cliff, I’m glad to see them excluded. Maybe this exclusion will be a wake-up call for some of them.
Blacks don’t march alongside the KKK and men have no business marching with sexist women.
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December 31st, 2009 at 1:23 pm
I was in a domestic violence march a few years ago. I was one of two men who led the march and carried a huge banner. People cheered for us!
In case you did not know, there are a lot of abusive women around, also. And also a lot of sexist, hate-filled women like the ones who made up the list which you wrote here.
EDIT EDIT
NIC and KEYPOINT–Just FYI, I was one of those men who felt inadequate because I was unable to protect my daughter. I left work early many times because of phone calls from my daughter. I refused to work weekends and also dropped out of the Army reserve because I was afraid to be away from home for very long. I was afraid to go to sleep at night, fearing for myself.
I now have custody of my daughter. We live 1,600 miles away from the abuser.
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I am an RN who has worked with hundreds of battered women.
December 31st, 2009 at 2:08 pm
I had my sign all made up ready to march. "IF YOUR ALL HERE WHO"S MAKING MY DINNER"
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December 31st, 2009 at 2:54 pm
This is the biggest load I’ve seen in a long time. Thanks for getting me all riled up, now I’m gonna have to go punch someone’s teeth down their throat…
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December 31st, 2009 at 3:40 pm
instead of the criticism, why isn’t there solutions? that’s what always cracks me up. oh, the stupid, ugly, male-bashing feminists -they can’t get anything right, can they? gee, superior ppl, why dont you tell us how to do it then?
there are men-only events– sydney has a festival open to men only, boys, and girls under 7 years old. (no one bashes them though)
if anyone has dealth with PTSD, they will realize that sometimes ppl have a fear of a member of the group that has beaten/tortured them. some torture victims here in the US are deathly afraid of the police….b/c the police in their country were the ones to torture them. marching beside someone and having someone in the sidelines IS a difference in distance and fear of intimidation.
having thousands of women march together can be significant in providing support and unity. i can understand that.
in regard to DV –this is a public health and a human rights problem of epidemic proportions. unfortunatley, it affects more women than men. 20,000 women a year die in Russia due to DV. worldwide, 1 in 3 women will experience some kind of abuse. Yeah, women are more likely to cause child abuse –predominantly (60%) of it is neglect (lack of care, lack of medical care, etc.) —but we also provide more child care so that would be expected. Most of us today say "family violence" and that includes abuse to the elderly and GLBT communities too.
i wouldn’t promote this type of march, but i wouldnt bash it either. they aren’t causing any harm. they are being friendly to males yet making their boundaries known in a non-confrontational manner..
to each their own.
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December 31st, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Pardon me while I laugh hahahahaheeheeeheeheeheee.
Honestly where do they come up with this stuff? On one hand they call for equality; while on the other they get a holiday just for themselves; by the way I don’t see an International Men’s Day; call be biased, but they deserve it more. Anyways; this woman celebrates International Women’s day every single day of the week. Yahooo I am a woman! That third statement is an outright lie. This brings me to mind about women who’ve lived in the 1700s I’ve often mentioned. Women such as Mary Katherine Goddard, who in 1766, along with her widowed mother become publishers of the Providence Gazette newspaper and the annual West’s Almanack, making her the first woman publisher in America. In 1789 Goddard opened a Baltimore bookstore, probably the first woman in America to do so. http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0907019.html
I guess they never met Mary.
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December 31st, 2009 at 4:32 pm
This is sexist and discrimination – plain and simple. I can see the points they are trying to make, but it doesn’t change the fact that they are promoting a ‘women’s only’ event….hardly a display of equality, now is it?
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December 31st, 2009 at 4:47 pm
"to demonstrate any way we want" Which means about a third of the "protesters" will use the event as an excuse to take off their clothes and go running down the street naked and screaming in the faces of the quieter women. Thereby losing the support of about a third of the remaining women.
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December 31st, 2009 at 5:27 pm
- and this question and many of the posts in response are precise examples of why men are being asked not to march. Those who understand and are sympathetic to the issues and opposed to those of their sex who abuse, will be cheering them on bless them.
I ask myself why men such as the questioner and the responders to whom I refer, including the female peons of male centralism, feel compelled to deny the abuse, co-opt the movement and stick their beaks into issues which they neither understand nor for which they feel any compassion.
The fact is that no matter what material you think you have about female abusers; one of the researchers to whom you often refer constantly adds the disclaimer: that women are still more likely to be seriously injured or killed by their abuser.
Secondly, this is an International movement.
Whether or not you believe that the problem in the US is minimal, solved or laughable – it is far from so for the rest of the world.
If you were truly interested in justice and in combating violence against women, you would show some respect for the preferences of the people in this movement at this time in history.
If you’re concerned about anything beyond the agenda represented by this march, why don’t you organize your own march? Are any of you getting a lobby group together on your important issues; backed by your important data; to appeal to the United Nations for similar recognition and support?
No, thought not.
Edit:
I see the usual references to the arguable notion that women abuse as much as men. Firstly, violence against women, which this march signifies – is global. Are women raping baby boys in Africa to cure themselves of AIDs ? Are women running the trafficking of women and children ? For every man that is raped by another man, at least three women are raped. The number of women murdering men is infinitesimal compared to the numbers of women who are reported daily as victims of rape and murder just in Western countries alone.
The violence that this march stands against isn’t just about domestic violence in Western countries – it’s global.
However, putting aside these posters’ parochialism and denial, there is the matter of respecting the victim experience.
Why must people feel they can dictate to them how they should conduct their protest.
For any men who have been victimized by women; is the answer to that to silence protests by females who have also suffered ? Who has told male victims to be silent or ‘take it like a man’ – feminists, or a male dominated society that refuses to believe that women can be formidable and therefore that disbelieves claims of male victimization?
I suggest that male victims:
1. Contact a local rape crises centre or refuge. They will provide legal advice for anyone seeking redress and counselling is available to any victim of sexual assault.
2. Support any protest against violence. Hating all women, including those who have suffered too and those who oppose violence by men, is not going to counter the dominant social views that have made it impossible for you to be believed or to express your pain and your needs.
3. If you all were marching; I would respect your experience enough to cheer you along. I would support your protest in any manner that you deemed appropriate. That is the level of compassion and respect that I ask you to extend to others who have been victimized.
4. No, I don’t care about you calling me a rapist of boys because I know I am not that. I know it’s your rage and insecurity driving that sort of comment. However, bear in mind that just as all men are not abusive; so it’s the same for women.
5. If men are worried about how they think they are portrayed, I have two comments:
a. All of this does not revolve around you. The important people here are the victims and those fighting on their behalf. There is a peculiar kind of solidarity in women gathering together to affirm their strength. Therefore, no man has "preeminent" right to any part of the protest.
b. The ones against whom I think you should be railing are other men who rape, bash, abduct, profiteer and kill. THEY are the ones who represent you, every day, all day, decade after decade. Until you have the courage and compassion to reflect on what it is like to be on the receiving end of that behaviour – under equipped by many of the societies in which they live to seek safety or justice – you will continue to be represented in such ways. If you find it irksome, please object even a little to the way in which violent men portray masculinity.
6. It is only because of the efforts of Western feminists and a relatively small number of extraordinarily insightful men that DV and a review of rape, assault and all violence of the strong against vulnerable others has come under wide scrutiny. No family abuse of any sort was spoken about outside the family home until recently; and even now there are many barriers to revelations by anyone – adult or child – about abuse within the family. The way to keep constructing a safe exit plan for victims is not to silence whatever protests exist at this time.
A final thought. Imagine that everyone who had had their vehicle stolen and trashed decided to march in protest against that. Would it make sense to pooh-pooh their angst because you’d had your home burgled and they didn’t include protest against burgulary. We then need to ask whether abusing or silencing the group who’d experienced car theft would help reduce burgulary or make your home safer.
If all you thumbs-downers can’t even organize a protest or march against female abusers, or construct a cogent case to present to the UN (just as women had to do), how can you feel qualified to tell these people how they should fight their experience of hurt ?
I urge you all to focus on protesting against violence; no matter who is leading the protest.
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December 31st, 2009 at 6:06 pm
If this were the opposite, men marching exclusive of women, we’d hear a loud rumble.
Nevertheless, go ahead and march, woman to woman, and I’ll stay home and support you in MY own way, e.g. voting whenever possible for equal rights, not yours. I NEVER go where I am not wanted, especially when it involves women.
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December 31st, 2009 at 6:34 pm
The biggest problem I have with this is the fact that equality and unity is what these people claim to be fighting for. Men joining their side would immensely promote their cause, seeing as they are the alleged enemy.
It just seems counter productive to the cause.
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December 31st, 2009 at 6:50 pm
Pandora stated it very eloquently.
I believe a man who is sincerely compassionate and supportive of the movement would participate in the ways the organization has suggested, rather than question the organization’s motives and methods.
Those who seek to subvert it are making their position very obvious.
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December 31st, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Well said Pandora.
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December 31st, 2009 at 7:39 pm
The number one reason is that such a march would be pointless and ineffective. The march will not prevent any abuser from abusing. An abuser’s mind will not be impressed by a march.
It’s like lighting a candle against starvation: it makes the candle-lighters feel good about themselves, but it doesn’t put food in anyone’s mouth.
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December 31st, 2009 at 8:07 pm
No and in fact I think it counteracts the whole movement. They keep men out of it and then wonder why we don’t care. Well, if the genders were reversed they’d be offended too, you can bet money on it. And I wouldn’t blame them. I’ve never assaulted a woman-I did fight with a girl in elementary school, but that’s another story. But that statement pretty much says that I’m suspicious from the get-go.
I support the cause, but not this march.
After answering I went back and read some of the other answers. Slick98’s answer was great. And Pandora, I support ending all violence period. Not just violence against women and children, as bad as that may be. What about men who were abused as children? They’re basically told they’re worthless by this. Let’s face it, violence overall targets men more than women, but you don’t see anybody marching to end that.
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December 31st, 2009 at 8:56 pm
I agree with proposition than men should not be forced away. If my lady was a victim, I would want to stand (or walk) with her, though I doubt I would enjoy being accused of being a rapist just because I have a meat and two veg (that’s ‘penis’ for those who don’t get British humour).
So, in short, I consider that there is no valid reason that shopuld keep men from being there and participating
It is a show, ths march, it connote no concept of substance, yet sends a message of guilt. I would never consider making a financial donation to this event because it is exclusive.
These marches are plain silly and ridiculous, and ignore the fact that violence touche men as well
Symbolism, for what it is worth is fine, but it should be inclusive. There should be a move against violence of all types, and an allowance for the admission that a lot of DV (somewhwere around half) is perpetrated by women aginst men. I have no isue with supporting the cause, just so long as the whole issue is recognised. And the methods and claims for ths march? Selective, pejorative and ignoring the fact that it represents only half is the DV issue in particular. You cannot hope to cure this problem without admitting it is a trans gender issue.
To Pandora: I understand the WHOLE issue demonstrably better than YOU, as a formwerly abused boy (female abuser), but I suffered in silence and saw female victims treated with kid gloves and then empowered. I was told to ‘be a man and move on’, so I am pissed at the one-sided nature of all this. If I were a girl, and my abuser a man, I would be treated infinitely better than I was. So yes, I will stick my nose in, and yes, I will claim pre-emiment right to comment on the hypocrisy of this situation, and I hold you in contempt for trying to minimise the unseen or untalked about violence perpetrated by people like you in our society. oH and if it seems unfair that I called you a rapist of boys, consider what you are doing: condoning the right of feminists to consider all men as rapists. Is my language or intonation too strong? Does it feel unfair? Get over it, just as every man has to every time they read sanctimonious, self-indulgent drivel by people like you.
Oh, and he UN and governnment are not supportive of my stance: women, women, women only are the victims.according to them, and if we were to march, we would have fem-nazi’s hurling abuse at us, police breaking up the march, the media saying we are inflammatory and ignoring the ‘real’ issue of violence against women. You really did not think that through, did you?
My quid’s worth
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December 31st, 2009 at 9:39 pm
I think its great that men won’t attend as it keeps men from wasting their time on foolishness. Oh, and the idea that men aren’t allowed in the march, but can give a donation reminds me of the old Eddie Murphy Saturday Night Live Skit where Eddie sings to a group of white people "We gotta to kill the white people, yeah, make them hurt, oh, we gotta kill the white people yeah, but white people, buy my record first."
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December 31st, 2009 at 9:51 pm
I personally wouldn’t waste my time on such pointless march.
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December 31st, 2009 at 10:07 pm
Jenny Kim is absolutely right. If you don’t want men in the march, don’t ask for their support or money.
Violence against men is completely ignored. When males are abused, we are told ‘to be men’ and move on. When females are so much as touched by someone, a molehill becomes a mountain, and the poor guy is behind bars before you can say ’sexist’.
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